PDA

View Full Version : Tomlin Order - MBNA sold to Marlin



differentjudge
13th September 2012, 16:59
Hi

I have a Tomlin Order with MBNA

I have made every payment on time since signing the order

Today I received a letter from MBNA to say they have sold the debt to Marlin Europe II Limited

Can they do this? ?

mystery1
13th September 2012, 17:02
Why not ?

If MBNA were taken over then it'd be a different company you made the payments to.

Keep paying and all should be well.

M1

differentjudge
14th September 2012, 13:02
i thought a Tomlin Order was like a court order and not like a finance agreement that could be transferable...

Never-In-Doubt
14th September 2012, 13:25
i thought a Tomlin Order was like a court order and not like a finance agreement that could be transferable...It is an agreement that is binding by the court so as long as you continue the repayments as with the TO you'll be fine, as M1 says above :clap

Do not change payee, just carry on as before unless instructed otherwise by the court. Only the court can change it.

ken100464
14th September 2012, 13:29
I would be interested in the answer to this as I asked something similar about a CCJ and a CO.

Both are court orders and to me it doesnt seem quite right these finance companies are just transferring them about without recourse back to the court.

I think of it along the lines of if I got someone to offer to pay my debt would both the CCJ and CO stay with the debt onto someone else property.

I dont think so. So how can these companies get a court order then decide to break it by transferring it or do they just make us think these things transfer with the sold debt.

And then this to my mind brings forward another question. If the court order has not been transferred by the court and has so to speak become disconnected by the sale of the debt where does that leave the debt?

Is it still protected by the CCJ or have the creditors shot themselves in the foot and left this protection behind in thier greed to make a quick buck?

Never-In-Doubt
14th September 2012, 13:33
A Tomlin Order (or the debt within it) can be sold, as the debt itself can be sold - that does not matter, the actual Tomlin is around the Schedule and any undertakings so in this case where it states "You agree to pay x etc" is the key point.

Continue to pay x to whoever the Tomlin tells you to, and then you are safe. If you pay the new company before the court says so you are in breach of the Tomlin so bear that in mind.

The court dictates changes to the schedule - nobody else. The owner of the Tomlin does not affect the schedule does it?

ken100464
14th September 2012, 13:58
Apologies to differentjudge for hi jacking the thread.

This is an interesting point.

Totally agree with everything that has been said and yep it doesnt matter who the owner is its the shedule that is in the court order that counts.

Not sure about Tomlin orders but in the case of my CCJ and CO the OC is named as the claimant.

I maybe barking up the wrong tree here but would have thought the DCA would have to go back to court to register both the CCJ and more importantly the CO in their name??? Afterall both are legal documents signed off by a judge.

This smacks of we have to abide by a court document or we get hell and brimstone fired at us but OC's and DCA's can do as they please.

For me its a very important question because if they have inadvertenly left the protection of a CCJ does this open up UE on the debt?

Never-In-Doubt
14th September 2012, 14:02
I maybe barking up the wrong tree here but would have thought the DCA would have to go back to court to register both the CCJ and more importantly the CO in their name??? Afterall both are legal documents signed off by a judge. They will not change the judgments, but if they wanted to they would do it through the courts - yours have not changed have they, or if so how exactly?

ken100464
14th September 2012, 14:25
No not changed at all. So both the CCJ and charge against the house is made out to the OC.

But the debt itself has been sold on to the DCA.

And to a simple fellow that seems pretty silly. As the debt that caused both the CCJ and CO now doesnt belong to the OC. But they still have an interest against our house. And that somehow dont quite seem right.

Perhaps its simple for the DCA to go for variation but perhaps that costs so they dont and use our ignorance of such things to pretend the CCJ and CO is still in place (It is but to someone else lol)

Obviously joking aside if there is any chance of getting the CCJ and then the CO lifted I would be all for that but wouldnt have a clue on how to do that.

Never-In-Doubt
14th September 2012, 14:35
Obviously joking aside if there is any chance of getting the CCJ and then the CO lifted I would be all for that but wouldnt have a clue on how to do that. The chargee can assign the debt if they want, you're looking too much into this - you won't be able to get it released unless you settle it sadly :sad

differentjudge
14th September 2012, 15:21
ok..
so i keep paying the scheduled payment on the agreed date to the company i have made the Tomlin order with

The new "owner" can not ask me to increase the payment or take any action as long as i pay as agreed.

differentjudge
11th April 2013, 12:23
things have moved on slightly..

they have sent me an Income/expenditure form to complete.


Do i just file it away or tell them to fuck right off as i am not increasing the payment

pooky2483
11th April 2013, 12:32
Sounds to me like they’re trying their luck as they have probably not looked through all the paperwork they have on the debt or maybe don’t understand the law properly.

Niddy or someone else more knowledgeable than me will more than likely be along shortly to advise, most probably say ignore it.

helmsman
11th April 2013, 12:37
ok..
so i keep paying the scheduled payment on the agreed date to the company i have made the Tomlin order with

The new "owner" can not ask me to increase the payment or take any action as long as i pay as agreed.
Do we assume the new owner of a ccj only paid 20/30p in the pound for it, so an offer to settle would be beneficial to the debtor?

pompeyfaith
11th April 2013, 12:51
I have been sent the same at 6 monthly intervals from Optima they letters are always marked without prejudice.

I just file them away and ignore because there are no terms to increase written into my Tomlin and it states how much to pay and the date that payments will cease which btw I will be long gone and 6ft under.

mgfboy
12th April 2013, 08:35
I can't understand why they would sell a debt under a Tomlin order, there is no room for extra profit. But I assume when they sell debt they just buy a bundle of accounts and take a risk with whats in it.

julian
12th April 2013, 10:05
There are 2 points in the thread that I can see cause confusion.

1 Transferability of debt

A debt is subject to a CCJ and there is a specific amount to be paid regularly.

The debt is sold on together with its payment schedule which is supported by the CCJ.

The CCJ is registered in the name of the original creditor who went to court until or unless the debt is satisfied.

The debt purchaser can raise a court application to change the details on the CCJ and the other legal document, but they rarely do. They trust that they will be able to enforce using the original court documents like a bearer bond. Are they correct in law in believing this?

Are there any cases where this has been contested? What outcome?


2 Opportunity to challenge when ownership changes

A debt is subject to a CCJ which was acquired by a creditor as it was incorrectly challenged in court. Perhaps by default or because the defence was naive.

The CCJ and perhaps the Charging Order were thereby gained by the original creditor because they were 'lucky'.

The debt is sold on and with it there is a CCJ and a CO. The CCJ and CO are still in the name of the original creditor and the current creditor cannot be bothered to apply for the documents to be changed.

The current creditor cannot take you back to court to obtain another CCJ and CO if you refuse to pay, can they?

What happens if you stop paying? e.g. county court judgement, force a sale of the house, attachment of earnings, bankruptcy that they threaten when offering a 'today only' discount.

Do they have to take you back to court to implement the sanctions on the CCJ? Or will the judge just sign off the order in their application?

If there is a court process to implement the sanctions, is there an opportunity to challenge the original CCJ? e.g. The creditor never produced a CCA, thereby rendering it UE, but you did not know it mattered at the time of the original claim.

Is it ever possible/worth challenging/appealing an existing CCJ based on current knowledge? e.g. reading through evidence on claim the original creditor admits no documentation, but now you know that made it unenforceable.

ken100464
12th April 2013, 21:04
Interesting points Julian.

Both have crossed my mind and seemingly anyone who has one of these orders/CCJ's when the OC after putting you through hell decide they dont want to be your friend anymore and sell up. It sort of sucks big time.

I have read one instance where one person went ahead to challenge the ownership of the debt on transfer under the egging on of another forum. He was well and truly spanked so he says and ended up with a four figure costs bill.

So unless he somehow put across he was challenging the court and CCJ and the judge took umbridge at him seemingly questioning one of his own its certainly not somewhere I wish to go.

So what do we have? An admin issue although I would be interested what would happen if you sold your house. Does the OC get the money as they have the charge? Or does the new owner get it who doesnt have the charge? Or do the freaking pair of them have a cosy little agreement where they share it like the leeches they are? Or indeed does neither of them get it because you dont owe anything to the entity who has the charge? because that was settled by the debt sale.

What other industry would get away with such a mess like that.

I just know it feels really unfair there is a charge against your house to some entity you no longer owe any money to. Even more unfair that you had to pay for them to secure the bloody thing aswell.

SXGuy
12th April 2013, 23:42
Do we know if it was an asignment in absolute though? wheres the proof they havent just asigned collection to someone else?

Good points about the CO and whos name its in. I would guess most DJ's would just side with the claimant regardless.

But the bit that would bother me, is do you keep paying the OC or do you pay the new asignee? if you pay the new asignee you are techically breaking the tomlin order, if you dont, what then? can they force a sale based on an order in another OC's name? its a tricky one.

If you are really bothered by it and wish to continue making payments to the right person, i see no reason why you couldnt inform the new OC that they are required to change the name on the tomlin order as you will not break the agreement by not paying the OC whos stated on the order.