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jerry
20th July 2012, 19:04
Hello everyone,

My partner has rec'd three letters in the last couple of months. The most recent is headed 'final notice' and warns her that 'legal proceedings' will be recommended. The letters are addressed with her and her husband's name on the top.

The letter states pursuers as NPower and the principle sum a little under £500. The account was in both their names.

A little background: she and her husband separated in Jan 2010. They agreed to share the outstanding bills. She paid her's there and then and her husband, still living in the matrimonial rented home agreed to pay his share. It appears very likely that the husband continued to run up a bill then disappeared without paying it.

She has not responded to the letters.

I am trying to help her as she is quite concerned and in fairness does not want to pay her ex's debt.

I have read many forum pages of peoples often shocking experiences with BC&W including Fred's in another thread here.

I was wondering if anyone has been in simliar circumstances (hope not) or perhaps knows what she might expect to happen next and what her options might be?

Thank you very much, Jerry

vossy
20th July 2012, 19:36
Hi and welcome to AAD, I am no expert but someone who is will be along to advise soon.

:luck

Never-In-Doubt
21st July 2012, 01:07
BCW won't do anything. I'd seriously not worry about this. After a while they WILL go away....

If they get heavy or you start to freak out give us a shout and I'll sort you a nice little letter to get rid of them :beer

Never-In-Doubt
21st July 2012, 01:07
ps hi :hi

jerry
21st July 2012, 10:08
BCW won't do anything. I'd seriously not worry about this. After a while they WILL go away....

If they get heavy or you start to freak out give us a shout and I'll sort you a nice little letter to get rid of them :beer


Hi, Well that is reassuring, thanks! When I hear again I will post. Have a good weekend. :happy

jerry
10th October 2012, 15:12
Hello again Never-In-Doubt, hello everyone!

Only silence from BCW as you predicted, thank you! We haven't contacted them.

If this should be the top of a fresh thread pls let me know and I'll certainly do that.

A letter arrived today from Wescot Credit Services Ltd headed Notice of Debt Collection £105. Instruction to collect on behalf of client Santander UK plc. It comprises a giro slip at the bottom and contact details for post and phone payments.

Her circumstances are exactly as outlined at the top of this page. If she felt for a moment it was my partner's debt we'd have paid it.

I'm wondering if you or anyone might know what we should do and if we do nothing (like with BCW) what we might expect to happen next?

Thank you very much

Jerry

The Tech Clerk
10th October 2012, 17:33
Come on = "Wetcloths Thinking", what with? lol

By the way Welcome.

jerry
10th October 2012, 20:53
Thanks Flower Power and for your welsome The Tech Clerk.

That's reassuring news and interesting too. I think I saw Anne Widicome on a breakfast TV sofa recently advising with great assertiveness the first thing to do in this situation is to ring up, make contact and talk to the collector. Glad we came here first!

Jerry:hey

ScabHunter
10th October 2012, 22:04
Welcome to the forum Jerry.


ps hi :hi

Another newbie making one line posts just to get his post count up :wink.


I think I saw Anne Widicome on a breakfast TV sofa...

Did the sofa survive?


...recently advising with great assertiveness the first thing to do in this situation is to ring up, make contact and talk to the collector.

What do you expect from a political puppet whose strings are pulled by the finance “industry”? As with all other politicians in the country, the paymasters matter, the voters don't.

Even if somebody wanted to pay an alleged debt, it would be extremely dangerous to negotiate by voice as it leaves no record of the dialogue. Communication in writing is essential no matter what your objectives may be.

If the alleged debt has been passed to Wetclothes you will undoubtedly also receive letters from their pseudo-licitor alter-ego Nelson Gits. These letters are so professional that they don't even have a telephone number for the so-called law firm, just one for the DCA from whom they are supposedly “independent”. Honestly, you are dealing with the bottom of the barrel here.

Nelson Gits, eh? One eye, one arm, one leg. Pity they couldn't find one bloody brain cell to go with them.

SH

jerry
25th October 2012, 13:45
Hello everyone,

Well we've not heard from Nelsons but did get a call to our ansa machine from H L solicitors (Collections and Legal), Redditch today. This is the same County in which we live.

Now, we can't tell if this eminates from BCW (and a Npower debt abt £500) at the top of this thread or in fact from Wescot Credit Services Ltd (abt £105 Santandar) halfway down.

Either way, the voice message asks us to call H L. I guess this means it's more serious now? Do you think my partner should do what they want now and call?

Thank you all!

Jerry

BTW my partners 'debts' aren't her's alone. When she and her ex split she paid half before leaving and he said he'd pay the other - and guess? I have a good feeling I don't need to give this explaination to get your insightful comments and that a 'everyone in here's innocent' Shawshank type assumption rules.... J http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/images/smilies/Generic%20Smileys/Icon-Smiley-Pack1-031.gif

ScabHunter
25th October 2012, 14:50
Do you think my partner should do what they want now and call?

Not unless they are skilled and experienced at handling this type of situation, and have the ability to record calls.

If this rabble were serious, why are they not sending proper letters like a reputable firm of solicitors?

If you wanted to be proactive, you could always respond by letter. If you think there is a serious danger of court proceedings being issued, a letter sent first class recorded delivery should get there the next day.

SH

SXGuy
25th October 2012, 18:27
If you are not sure what debt these muppets are ringing about, ignore them. They will soon write to you if they get no where on the phone.

Failing that, if you happen to answer the phone off gaurd, just tell them to make all corespondence in writing and hang up.

Personally, i never answer calls or reply to any letters which do not clearly state what debt it relates to.

Never-In-Doubt
25th October 2012, 19:58
I concur, for now ignorance is best - please update us if and when they do write but if you happen to answer the phone to them just hang up.....

Literally if they say "it's HL Legal" just hang-up. :beer

SXGuy
25th October 2012, 21:32
Had one the other day, ring my mum and ask for her by her first name, like it was a personal call, so always gotta be warey of these idiots trying any method lol

jerry
26th October 2012, 12:09
Big thank you to everyone who commented! Have a great weekend all! :applause

jerry
30th October 2012, 09:27
Good morning,

We've rec'd a letter from HL solicitors referencing a their client Sigma SPV1 Limited who, they say, have instructed HL to with regard to £125.17 . We get a call to our ansa machine everyday rquesting we call back.

My partner doesn't recognise Sigma (it's neither of the two names above) nore the amount.

HL's standard looking letter goes on to say she should phone or pay through their website or postoffice or they may recommend to their client that legal procedings are issued against her in the County Court for this amount, plus interest and costs. HL are in the same County as us.

We think this is an escalation of pressure and wonder what we should do. We appreciate you can't offer advice but if anyone has a similar experience they'd like to share then we'd be very pleased to read it.

Thanks you, Jerry

ScabHunter
30th October 2012, 09:32
Good morning,

We've rec'd a letter from HL solicitors referencing a their client Sigma SPV1 Limited who, they say, have instructed HL to with regard to £125.17 . We get a call to our ansa machine everyday rquesting we call back.

My partner doesn't recognise Sigma (it's neither of the two names above) nore the amount.

HL's standard looking letter goes on to say she should phone or pay through their website or postoffice or they may recommend to their client that legal procedings are issued against her in the County Court for this amount, plus interest and costs. HL are in the same County as us.

We think this is an escalation of pressure and wonder what we should do. We appreciate you can't offer advice but if anyone has a similar experience they'd like to share then we'd be very pleased to read it.

Thanks you, Jerry

I'd send them this -

Our Templates | Harassment & Intimidation Templates | You know nothing of the Debt / Prove It (http://www.all-about-debt.co.uk/templates/harassment/t1.php)

SH

ken100464
30th October 2012, 09:55
Agee with SH

Seemingly SPV 1 have a shed load of M&S rubbish to chase. Did your OH have a M&S account in the past.

HL have on behalf of SPV 1 been issuing claims for small amounts recently. But reading about the net this could be the start of a bigger claim coming behind. ie its a split claim which is naughty.

Again reading around it seems the court papers come to people who are not pro active and ignore the increasing excitment of the renta puppets, which by following SH's advice you wont be.

Best of luck.

SA Gold
30th October 2012, 10:40
Personally, i never answer calls

I never answer any calls, ever at home. Always ring back - if its someone i want to speak with of course! :beer

The Tech Clerk
30th October 2012, 11:29
H.L. did on the bottom of the letter state reply to Sigma?? not H.L.?

jerry
31st October 2012, 09:44
Thanks to all who commented.

The Tech Clark, HL's letter makes no instruction to reply to their client Sigma, only to HL.

There's no M&S debt that we know of. Mostly likely to be Power company (her ex didn't pay off his half when last to leave matri. home) or Abbey Bank (ex wrote down her card details and ran up debt after spilt we online shopping. Suppose that could be M&S?!

Particular thanks to ScabHunter (http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/member.php?u=1768) for your useful comment which we will follow.

Jerry :yeababy

Never-In-Doubt
31st October 2012, 09:48
Sygma bank own a lot of store credit so could be anything like that...?

M&S used to be underwritten by HSBC - never Sygma. For example, Sygma now do asda credit card and new look / jjb store card/credit as well as hundreds others!

Never-In-Doubt
31st October 2012, 09:49
Oh sorry. Is SPV 1 a dca? Lol

I thought it meant Sygma bank ;W ;W

ken100464
31st October 2012, 09:57
JJB storecard would be one of the most useless bits of credit going now.

jerry
31st October 2012, 10:07
Hi Again Everyone,

I've prepared the standard letter but now have to pasue whilst I think about what ken100464 commented abt small claim with bigger one waiting to follow on. I am guessing that tatic works only on the person who rolls over and pays thinking that's the end of it only to be softened up before a ramping up. I don't really know.

Hi Never-In-Doubt, The spelling is def Sigma SPV1 Limited, but thanks for your interest.

I'll post what we decide to do i.e. sned or don't send Letter

Jerry

ken100464
31st October 2012, 10:33
Would defo still follow SH's advice.

Mine was only general info on reading around the internet. SH's was the advice of choice.

And to your question I would suspect its either roll over pay up get a bigger claim behind or looking for a default judgement cause you dont do anything.

With the good advice given, before I clouded it with background info, you are being pro active. Least you will know what you are dealing with.

Good luck.

Never-In-Doubt
31st October 2012, 10:37
Yes deffo send the template mentioned as that will stop them treating it as a "won't payer" and trying to issue a claim.

Deffo register your disapproval by sending the template.

Keep us updated. :beer

jerry
31st October 2012, 18:26
Ken, N-I-D,

That's excellent and just what I was about to surf aimlessly around the internet tonight for. Will send and update here. Thanks, Jerry

jerry
11th November 2012, 21:09
Hello All,

Just a little update. We sent the template letter 11 days ago but haven't had anything back. Except we do still get the automated phone every week day from HL.

Thanks for all your interest.

Jerry:salute

MrsD
11th November 2012, 22:02
that can be fine, I've had months/years between letters

if they are stumped, they put it to the bottom of a pile

just keep and eye out and if something comes, let us know.

jerry
20th November 2012, 10:35
Good morning Everyone,

Yesterday we rec'd a letter from UMS headed Propert Visit, client BCW Grp Ltd (we have heard from before) Red NPower Ltd Princ sum £497.

The letter is addressed to both my partner and her ex husband (separated) although she is certain this debt her ex accumulated after she left the family home.

The letter tells us that UMS has been instructed by BCW to either visit our property and collect the full balance or make arrangements.

We have ignored all BCW's letters and this looks similar but is headed UMS and is the first to mention a visit. There are the payment options we've seen before on the reverse.

I appreciate you cannot advise us but we would be interested to know if anyone has had experience of this firm.

We are feeling a bit intimidated.

Thanks a lot for reading, have a good day!

Jerry:beer

ken100464
20th November 2012, 10:54
Am sure proper advice will be along shortly.

However you have indicated exactly what they are trying to achieve.

They are making you feel intimidated. That is what they are trying to do. Once you are in this state you will be more likely to cough.

Its not personal to them your just a number to collect. But to us it does become personal.

It happens to many of us.

ScabHunter
20th November 2012, 11:29
I put 'UMS' into the search engine, went ten pages deep, and found nothing about UK attempted debt collectors.

What I would do in this situation is to send an exact copy of the "prove it" template which was sent earlier, to these idiots, along with a letter addressed to them saying something like "Please find enclosed a letter which was sent to xxxxx on xx/xx/xxxx, to which I am still awaiting a response".

I would then add, under that, this -

Our Templates | Harassment & Intimidation Templates | Harassment & Threat of Doorstep-Visit (http://www.all-about-debt.co.uk/templates/harassment/t6.php)

You would need to amend the wording slightly to reflect the fact that it is not UMS but the alleged account holder who has been performing the harassment by telephone, but other than that it should be good to go.

SH

PS Don't feel intimidated. They are chancers out to make a dishonest living from anyone who falls for their moronic threats.

ken100464
20th November 2012, 11:36
UMS were purchased by BCW in Feb this year.

It has 50 full time door steppers and 200 self employed munchkins.

Utility management services is its name and is based in Warrington Cheshire.

It specialises in utility debt where it is the market leader in door stepping.

Basically BCW have passed you to the next door desk.

Hope that helps

ScabHunter
20th November 2012, 11:41
UMS were purchased by BCW in Feb this year.

It has 50 full time door steppers and 200 self employed munchkins.

Utility management services is its name and is based in Warrington Cheshire.

It specialises in utility debt where it is the market leader in door stepping.

Basically BCW have passed you to the next door desk.

Hope that helps

That helps a lot. In that case, the OP doesn't even need to amend the harassment template because it is the same gang of thugs with a different mask on.

SH

jerry
20th November 2012, 15:00
Hey Ken, Hey SH,

That's all very good to hear thank you! Now we know more and how to fight back a little we don't feel intimidated at all! And it's a sweet feeling!

We will template recorded signed for and see that else comes.

Thanks again, Jerry

jerry
29th November 2012, 12:09
Hello everyone,

Success! I think!?

We have just rec'd a letter from BCW. We had their associates, UMS's letter threatening a door step visit last week which we responded to with the Harassment template letter here.

BCW's letter today informs us that:- '...the issue is currently being investigated further... in the meantime..... ''cease all action'' instruction has been placed on your account'.

To us this must mean BCW didn't have full and actionable documentation before they started calling and sending us letters. We take this as good news. (The debt is £500 Npower - acumulated by my partners Ex after she moved out. In both names).

Does anyone know if BCW's letter has an important significance I may have missed?

Thanks, Jerry
:ande (I don't what this anime means - just liked it)

ScabHunter
29th November 2012, 12:17
Hello everyone,

Success! I think!?

We have just rec'd a letter from BCW. We had their associates, UMS's letter threatening a door step visit last week which we responded to with the Harassment template letter here.

BCW's letter today informs us that:- '...the issue is currently being investigated further... in the meantime..... ''cease all action'' instruction has been placed on your account'.

To us this must mean BCW didn't have full and actionable documentation before they started calling and sending us letters. We take this as good news. (The debt is £500 Npower - acumulated by my partners Ex after she moved out. In both names).

Does anyone know if BCW's letter has an important significance I may have missed?

That is good news, and it is a partial success. They haven't capitulated yet, but they have at least acknowledged that they need to stop the silly threats and do something more sensible. They are firmly in retreat, so wait to see what happens next.



:ande (I don't what this anime means - just liked it)

It means the geezer in the middle will soon have a sore head.

SH

jerry
17th December 2012, 10:45
Hi SH, Hi Ken, Hi everyone,

BCW and NPower £*****

We just rec'd a letter from BCW headed 'Final Response'. It is in reply to our template letters asking for proof of the debt and separately to deny their associate's (UMS) any entitlement to make a door step collection.

In their letter BCW claim

1. that they do not need to prove the debt / provide outstanding invoice etc the as the say the debt must be ligitmate because their client passed it to them for action. Also that they do not consider us to have reasonably queried or disputed the debt and that the CPUTR 2008 reference is irrelevant because of the details of our contract with Npower

2. that our reference to OFT rules which do not allow door step visit / collection without an appointment is false and that a first visit and follow up visits to an agreed appointment or when an appointment is broken are allowed.

3. that requests for copy invoices to identify the debt must be made to Npower deirectly and not to BCW.

BCW have given us until the end of December to get these invoices and dispute the claim or to pay BCW in full.

I have written but not yet posted a letter to NPower asking for invoices.

Just to re-cap briefy. This Npower debt has both my partner's name and her separated husband's name on it. She separated from him in Jan 2010. He agreed to pay the bill going forward but guess what - he didn't. Now he has disappeared and BCW have only found her (my partner). She think this bill relates to after she left him.

Everyone here has been terrific and supportive and very generous with their time - Thank you! If anyone has had a similar experience they like to share or any comment to make then we'd be very happy to receive them.

Thanks and Seasons best wishes,


Jerry

ScabHunter
17th December 2012, 12:30
In the first place, don't go sending any letters to NPower for invoices. If the Bloody Cantankerous Wankers believe that there is a debt, it is their responsibility to prove it.

I would send them something like this -

"I am in receipt of your letter dated xx/xx/xxxx, the contents of which are noted. I regret to say that I find your response deceitful, insulting, and, in part, even nonsensical.

To take the points one by one -

You state that you do not need to prove the validity of the alleged debt, nor to provide copies of any outstanding invoice, and say that the alleged debt must be legitimate "because your client has passed it to you for action". Are you stating, therefore, that your client is entirely infallible, and utterly incapable of making a mistake of any kind? Either a paperwork error, or a mistaken identity? Are you stating that their accounts procedure is so advanced that it is the only one on Earth which does not have the capability to miscalculate? And are you also saying that there is a zero probability of your assignor simply taking the easy way out and targeting a person they may have located, instead of taking the trouble to find the real account holder?. As you must be aware, anyone can invent an alleged debt in any amount and attempt to make an equitable assignment of it to a third party. Are you saying, therefore, that your organisation has no quality control checks in place, that you just harass people with no reason or justification because a third party tells you to? Is that your concept of how a consumer recoverables business should be run?

Obviously, there is no obligation upon any individual to pay money to an organisation without justification, and that justification must come in the form of verifiable proof. Even producing an invoice would not prove the existence of any alleged debt, as it would not prove whether or not the amounts quoted on the invoice were legitimate, and justified by goods or services supplied to the alleged debtor, neither would it address the issue of whether any monies may have been remitted since the creation of the invoice.

It is entirely your responsibility to justify your demands for payment, unless you consider that you are somehow above the law and can just demand money from anyone you please without reason or justification. So, which is it?

You also allege that reference to the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 is irrelevant because of details of an alleged contract between myself and an energy supplier. On the contrary, you must be aware that no contract of any kind, either between the relevant parties or any third party, can obviate your obligation to comply with this binding statute. Notwithstanding this consideration, the "details" of any such contract, whatever they are purported to be, have not been established due to your refusal to comply with relevant legislation and provide verifiable proof of the alleged debt.

The Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance explicitly states that the following is an unfair practice -

3.13f) visiting or 'threatening' to visit a debtor, without his prior agreement, when the debt is deadlocked or reasonably queried or disputed.

As you have failed to provide any proof of the legitimacy of this alleged debt, and indeed are blatantly refusing to do so, it is plainly obvious that the alleged debt is deadlocked and disputed.

The Guidance clearly makes no differentiation between initial doorstep harassment and that which may follow. It merely states that the visit itself, or the threat of a visit (which you have already carried out), is an unfair business practice.

I repeat once again that I am only prepared to discuss this matter in writing. Sending any representative to make visits to my property will only represent a waste of your time and resources, and will be entirely futile as I will not engage them in dialogue.

While on the subject of the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance, you may also like to consider that the following are considered to be unfair practices -

3.8 Dealings with debtors and others are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.
3.9 a. Sending demands for payment, by any means, to an individual, when it is uncertain whether he is the actual debtor

Those considerations would appear to apply to your refusal to provide the necessary proof of indebtedness mentioned above.

You also allege that requests for copy invoices to identify the debt must be made to the assignor directly and not to yourselves. Need I remind you of the Law of Property Act 1925, and the fact that the assignee of an alleged debt takes on both the rights and the duties associated with it? I shall certainly not be wasting my time carrying out your statutory duties for you.

I fail to see what more I can do to convince you of your responsibilities, so I await your response. The required response is either verifiable proof of the alleged debt, or an assurance that the law will be complied with and that I will not be harassed again."

SH

jerry
17th December 2012, 15:41
Hey SH,

I was cautious at first. Now I think 'sod it' and I've sent it! I adjusted to fit with their letter but essentially it's the same as you suggested. I almost can't wait to see what comes next!

Just as a secondary position, this debt is in joint names and was built up after my partner moved out of the relevant property. We can prove this with a Decree Nisi and Council Tax date. Is it possible that BCW would be disueded from their current course against her if we showed them this and gave them her husband's address to pursue instead? (He was the one enjoying the heat and light)

Anyway, thanks for your brilliant reply and I how everyone here gets to read it and gain something from it.

Cheers, Jerry

JadeIsVeryWorr
10th September 2013, 01:20
Hi Jerry + Everyone,

I am getting final notices from Buchanan Clarks & Wells because of EE (T-Mobile). So basically, I've had my contract for about 7 months. But now after 3 months, I cannot afford to have pay anymore. I tried to contact them, telling them I would buy myself out of the contract. But they had none of it and decided not to listen, now I am getting threats from BCW because apparently. They said they're going to pass my account onto a DCA (Doorstop Collection Agency) which I am assuming are bailiffs, now if it gets to that stage I think I will die. I don't want them to get my family or our house involved, and I can't keep on coughing up unnecessary money out to a contract. So now what shall I do. I know some of you might think this sounds stupid, but please bare in mind that I am just turned 20 and still a student. And have other financial problems to face, from the bottom of my heart can you please help me x

:'( :-# :|

Never-In-Doubt
10th September 2013, 01:45
They can't send bailiffs. Don't worry.

Tell us more. Can you afford like £10pm? If so I'm sure we can help you get something sorted. Also they cannot refuse a contract buy-out so long as you pay the term off. More info please & try and calm down. You'll be fine.

JadeIsVeryWorr
10th September 2013, 02:08
Thank You @Never-In-Doubt, You Have Really Released ALOT Of Stress That I Am Going Through Right Now. I Felt So Alone, And Actually Thought Bailiffs Would Arrive Any Second And Raid My House!!!! Can BCW Send Bailiffs In Any Specific Circumstances...

Can I Just Ask What Does Doorstep Collection Agency Mean & Yes I Can Pay That!!!!

cymruambyth
10th September 2013, 08:35
Hi Jade and welcome. They cannot send bailiffs until they have been to court and obtained judgement against you. This is a long way off and you will have help to fight this before then.
it would be best if this is started as a new thread so that help is for you and not another poster.

SXGuy
10th September 2013, 08:58
Doorstep agents and baliffs are two different things, if anyone knocks at your door, politely tell them to F off.